Transcript
Saturday, March 21st it’s 10:00 AM this is part four of our daily webinar concerningthe current coping epidemic is affecting your court case. and your custody orders. Weare joined by the legal panel here at family law matters for also today we have aspecial guest. We’re joined by a medical doctor from Loma Linda and she’ll talk aboutsome of the data that is being shared with her and the statistics and what they’reexpecting. she also has some really great points, concerning the virus and how itaffects and impacts children’s specifically. So Gina, I’m going to start with you. Ifyou can give us a brief intro about yourself for those who are joining the call.
SPEAKER 3
Yes. Hi, welcome everyone. I am Gina family Laurel. I am one of the partners at family law matters attorney for 23 years in March. I’m sorry, it may nine years practiced in orange County. Been out here for 14 years, only family law in all of that time.
SPEAKER 2
Thank you. Gina and Colleen, you are up next.
SPEAKER 1
Good morning. My name is Coleen Robinson. I’ve been practicing family law for 10 years, all throughout Southern California. And this isn’t the only field that I’ve been practicing anything before I became.
SPEAKER 2
Perfect. Thank you. Colleen and Liz. Christie, you’re up.
SPEAKER 3
Yes. Good morning everybody. My name is Christie bergamot. I am also a family law attorney here at family law matters. I have been practicing for 17 years, which wow. Anyway, it’s all I’ve been doing, so, welcome everybody and I hope everybody’s saying safe.
SPEAKER 2
Awesome. Thank you Christie and dr Shahada. Okay.
SPEAKER 1
Hi, I’m Hannah Shahada. I’m an OB GYN resident third year at Loma Linda. I’m going to be talking to you guys about the covert virus and what we know so far.
SPEAKER 2
Perfect. Thank you, Hannah. Okay, so before we get into the topic, I just want to remind the participants as they join the, this will be, or this meeting is recorded and it will be posted on our website, our YouTube channel and our Facebook page. So if for some reason you’re unable to attend, please send us your questions. We’ll answer them. yesterday we got a lot of questions. Some we were able to answer, some, we weren’t able to due to time restrictions. But again, continue to send in your questions and we’ll answer them as soon as we get them. But let’s start with the governor’s order. So the governor on Thursday night issued a shelter in place order for all of California. since then, New York, Connecticut, Illinois have followed the same and there is a prediction that the country, maybe I’m imposing similar orders or rules. Christie, I know we talked earlier today and you had the, order pulled up, able to start us off with that.
SPEAKER 4
Well, I, I believe that the order is clear that, you know, there are no exceptions and what we’re trying to do is prevent. And of course dr Shahada is going to address this even more aptly. But I think we’re trying to prevent the spread of this and we’re trying to contain people and I just, I don’t see an exception in his order. I think it’s very black and white that if you’re not essential or you’re, you know, I don’t see an exception for, you know, custody of visitation exchanges. I just don’t see it.
SPEAKER 3
Can’t hear. So I think the issue that we’re having Christie and the questions that we’re getting in vast numbers is along the lines of, it doesn’t seem to matter what the governor says. My ex is threatening to exercise the visitation. My ex is calling the police, my ex is going to be at my doorstep. What is the practical advice given the governor’s order, you need
SPEAKER 4
to work with the other parent. And sometimes that’s not possible, but right now it is incumbent upon everyone to exercise reasonableness. And what that means is, is that you have to communicate with the other side. And I know in all of these webinars we keep saying the same thing in that regard, but it’s, it’s absolutely imperative. And I know that some parents are taking this more seriously than others. I’ve had discussions with my clients like, well, if we can go for a hike, why can’t you bring the child to the location And you know, it’s a case by case basis. I think most parents are understanding the gravity of this, but some aren’t. And in those situations, that’s what we’re here for and that’s when you need to reach out to me specifically and say, Hey, I’ve gotten a certain situation. You know, what do I do
SPEAKER 4
And I feel like as a practical matter, I don’t see, again, I could be wrong, I don’t see I’m totally, but that law enforcement is going to go and enforce those orders right now. of course we can never advise you to violate the court orders. We’ve said that from day one. We cannot do that. but again, as Gina points out, there’s a practical aspect to this and again, it is incumbent upon you as parents to be reasonable with one another, to communicate with one another, to figure out an alternate solution and to always tell the other parent, if you’re the custodial parent, look this is temporary. We will make up your time, whatever that means. If it’s you get the child or children for the entire summer to make up for what’s occurring right now, I think that’s the best strategy that there are going to be ones that are going to use this to their advantage.
SPEAKER 4
And there are going to be ones that are going to be so upset about the fact that they can’t see their child for an unspecified period of time, that they are going to try and enforce it. And I think again, it’s a case by case basis. If law enforcement shows up, you’re at your door with the other parent and says, you know, give them the child you’re going to have to do clearly. But I just, again, I didn’t read in in government and Mason’s order an exception. So, and I think when dr Shahada talks about the health implications of this, I think it’s going to hit home more, more appropriately. but that’s, that’s those are my thoughts.
SPEAKER 2
And Christy, there we received a question that’s kind of in line with what you just stated, which is my extra and to have the police here during custody exchange, she said she was told by the officer she spoke to that the court order should be followed over to the governor’s orders. What should I do
SPEAKER 4
then That’s your answer then if that law enforcement officer says that you need to exchange the child, then that’s what you need to do. I mean we’re, we’re all in. I will reiterate where Oregon all going to reiterate. We are in unchartered territory. We don’t know. I’m, I look, I approached this issue as a safety and health concern. I don’t look at it is, you know, the legalities of your CCRC recommendation. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t see it that way right now. But if law enforcement tells you that you need to follow the exchanges and that’s what you need to do and I guarantee in another scenario you’re going to get a different answer. I think law enforcement’s going to tell you something differently depending on who you get. But if law enforcement saying that, then you have to do that. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 2
And maybe this is a good time to ask dr dr Shahada to join in and dr Shahada, how, how does COBIT 19 affect children as a, as a group
SPEAKER 1
So right now the studies have shown that with Cobra, 19 children are mostly carriers, so they get minor symptoms like that of a cold. most kids are, are, have no symptoms at all. but they are able to spread it to others because of the fact that they still have the virus, even their immune system is fighting off the symptoms. for our standpoint, we’re asking that everyone stays home. The CDC recommendations are that if you are not considered an essential health care worker, part of the food industry, part of the government, that you should be staying home. the way that it’s worded is all non-essential activities. citizens should not be leaving their house at this time.
SPEAKER 2
Okay. I’m going to ask you to repeat the statistics concerning the children just because we, one of the participants was unable to hear you. So can you just repeat that one more time
SPEAKER 1
Sure. So as of right now, most studies have shown that children are not significantly affected by Covin 19. but they are considered to be carriers, meaning that they don’t have a lot of symptoms. They may just have a minor cold, but they’re able to transmit it to others. because this is an aerosol virus. So whenever you’re coughing, talking, any time that there’s any sort of, saliva that is exchanged, it can lead to other people getting sick even if the kids themselves don’t seem sick. So they’re considered to be a high risk carrier at this time.
SPEAKER 5
What does that mean Hybris carrier
SPEAKER 1
So they are more likely to spread it because of the fact that they don’t know that they are sick.
SPEAKER 2
And how long does it take for them to show symptoms
SPEAKER 1
Most people will experience symptoms within five days, up to two weeks. some people have had the virus and tested positive and have had minimal symptoms. So it really depends on the person’s immune system, but most people will experience some sort of symptoms within five, five days to two weeks.
SPEAKER 2
Okay. And I’m want to confirm, can everybody hear the, what the doctor is saying Who everyone on the panel
SPEAKER 5
Yes. Christie, can you hear Yes.
SPEAKER 2
Okay. Adam, since you unable to hear what’s being stated, I’m going to, write a request that you watched that part of the recording. if I may summarize the doctors point and it’s that even though the children may not show symptoms and may not, and the virus does not affect them, as dramatically as it affects other age groups, they are considered high risk carriers, which means that if the child’s exchanged from one place to the other and they may be carrying the virus, putting others at risk without even knowing children, you know, they will cough, they will sneeze, they will touch things. That’s just how they are. so we just, we want to make sure that the kids remain safe. That’s at the end of the day, that’s the goal is the kids remain safe. And Colleen, I’m going to ask you to chime in on this, a little bit. So with what dr Shahada had just said again, how do you think that, how should parents interpret that you’re a, you’re a mother of young children in knowing that, how does that, I mean, how would you react to that
SPEAKER 6
Well, as everyone can see, I’m currently coughing and blowing my nose. so to me that’s terrifying. because I don’t know what they come into contact with and if, you know, little kids or kids in general, they’re in everything and they’re touching everybody. So I think that’s when we were talking prior to, our lives are recording right now. And I heard that statistic from dr Shahada when that’s really what hits home here. And that’s why, our whole position as to what to do in the shelter in place is that our children though that they could be symptomless, they can affect us, you know, everybody else in our families. And that’s why we’ve got to try to keep the movement and exchanges to a minimum in this situation. cause it’s not just our kids, it’s everybody else. So I think that was a very sobering statistic and something for everybody to keep in mind.
SPEAKER 6
And Colleen, if some, if a parent has custody of a child, that child is in that parent’s home and the police are knocking on the door. See, give me, give mom or give dad the child. What is the advice to the parent who has custody at that moment Well I think Christie, Christina was just talking about that as well. I think, I mean you certainly don’t want to get involved in some sort of exchange with the police officers cause that’s just going to ratchet up all the anxiety as well. And I think it’s just as Christy had said before, this is going to be a case by case situation. You’re, I have zero doubt just based upon our experience when parents call the police and custody exchanges, a lot of the time they don’t get involved. They say this is, you know, this is a family law matter.
SPEAKER 6
You’re going to have to take it to court. So I would imagine that there’s going to be a lot of calls that are, the police aren’t going to do anything. So I think in that situation, if a police officer is telling you you’ve got to do the exchange, I think like Kristi said before, then you should probably do the exchange and you can, you know, I don’t think there’s any harm to saying, you know, I would try, I’ve been trying to reach out to the other party. I think this is serious and I wasn’t, you know, we’re not trying to be difficult. I’m trying to make other arrangements for when this is over with. This is a serious health concern and this is serious health health risk. Dr Shahada, I want to ask you, because I think I heard you and I want to make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say that medical professionals are advising
SPEAKER 3
to stay home because they’re such high risk carriers
SPEAKER 1
Yeah, so we’re, we’re actually advising everyone to stay home. But in, in particular, one of the reasons that shut down the schools is because children are carriers. right now, you know, the, the advice is if anyone in the house is sick to try and clean up after them, make sure that you’re not sharing things with them. but in general for children, because they are carriers, you know, you need to be making sure they wash their hands, making sure that they’re regularly cleaning up the areas that they play, sanitize the areas that they’re in, and then if they do feel sick or if they have any signs that they could be sick to not let them be around others.
SPEAKER 2
Okay. So if I, again, I’m going to repeat and just summarize like I can’t say it any better than you did, but the point is make sure that when you have the children that they are safe. Take safety precautions. Make sure they wash their hands, make sure that you wipe down their tables where they sit, their chairs, their toys. Just be as safe as you possibly can to protect the children. Is that a fair That’s not right.
SPEAKER 3
Specifically, the doctor said children are to stay home. Everyone has to stay stable as much as humanly possible. Is that what you,
SPEAKER 1
yes. One thing to keep in mind is, is California has just been able to start testing as of Monday in most jurisdictions. And so far in California, we already have 980 confirmed cases. In San Bernardino alone we’ve had three or four deaths as well as Riverside County. There’s now been four deaths. So it’s a, it’s a serious matter that we’re expecting to be hit with. New York right now has over 5,000 cases. Seattle or Washington area has over a thousand. we’re expecting that Seattle is probably about two weeks behind New York and we’re probably two weeks behind Seattle before we get hit.
SPEAKER 3
So in four weeks we’re expecting an influx of COBIT 19 cases. Yes. And you said how much, how many people have tested positive just since you started testing on Wednesday Well,
SPEAKER 1
we started testing on Monday. so for the CDC reports that there’s 982 cases as of yesterday.
SPEAKER 3
So you found 982 cases in five days of testing Yes. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg is what medical professionals are saying.
SPEAKER 1
Yes. New York has been testing now for two or three weeks and as I said, they’re up to, to over 5,000, I believe there are over 6,000 cases. Now.
SPEAKER 3
Now with regard to the statistics, how many, how first off, how transmissible is this disease as compared to other diseases
SPEAKER 1
So most viruses are considered a one to two or one to three. So for every one person sick, you transmitted it to two or three people. this virus is more like on a one six or one to eight level. The reason being is that this is the Corona viruses is what causes the common cold, but this is not atypical Corona virus. they are not sure if it has, mutated multiple times because different countries, different age groups are affected. but what they found is that this is, a, basically it’s a bio weapon, covert 19 strain that, we don’t have an immunity to. So there’s no immunity that prevents you from spreading it to anyone that you come in contact with.
SPEAKER 3
Do a highly contagious bio weapon with no immunity for humans.
SPEAKER 1
So far, they haven’t found that, that most people are immune to it. So, pretty much anybody that comes into exposure can be affected on some degree. Those that have a healthy immune system, no other underlying problems usually presents as a cold or, as a flu. but for those that have underlying disease, and this can be just high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, any underlying illness, they get hit pretty hard.
SPEAKER 3
Do you know how many residents there are in Riverside County by any chance
SPEAKER 1
no I do not off the top of my head.
SPEAKER 3
do you know how many hospital beds there are in Riverside County
SPEAKER 1
Let’s see, it looks like Riverside County. Just briefly Googling it. There’s 2.4 million people in Riverside County, 2.1 million in San Bernardino.
SPEAKER 3
How many hospital beds do you know that,
SPEAKER 1
I’m trying to think. let me see. So in Riverside County there was probably at most 5,000 hospital beds.
SPEAKER 3
And you said there’s how many people between San Bernardino and Riverside County 5 million. About 5 million. And how many people who get coated 19 will end up in the hospital. What percentage
SPEAKER 1
They estimate they estimate based on other countries, about 10% can end up in the, in the hospital.
SPEAKER 3
So 10% of the 5 million will end up in the hospital. Is your estimates that medical professionals estimate
SPEAKER 1
We’re trying to avoid that. Our goal is that it is that people who are sick stay home unless they are having difficulty breathing and need to come in for ICU level of care. so we’re hoping it will be less than that. But worst case scenario we’re expecting about 10%.
SPEAKER 3
And what percent are you expecting to be in the ICU
SPEAKER 1
like I said, our goal is that the only people that are admitted to the hospital are those that need ICU level of care so that it’s not spread to other people. so because of that, we would expect only those that need ICU level of care to be admitted.
SPEAKER 3
What percentage though, are you expecting of the 5 million residents to be in the ICU
SPEAKER 1
We’re not sure
SPEAKER 3
how many ICU beds do you have And then I’ll stop questions.
SPEAKER 1
Loma Linda has, a total of about a hundred ICU beds. not all of them are obviously able to be occupied by Corona, by Cova 19. since there are other conditions that need them. and not all beds in the hospital are also able to have the precautions that we need for COBIT 19. they need to be a negative pressure rooms, which there’s a limited number in the hospital
SPEAKER 2
in Gina. With that answer, I just, I want you to, because I know you’re, you’re an attorney, you’re an attorney mode. You’re asking questions. So I just, I want to give the, the audience kind of a glimpse of what you’re trying to get at. If you can elaborate on that.
SPEAKER 3
You want me to repeat what the doctors,
SPEAKER 2
no, not repeat, but your line of questioning, if I understand it correctly, was trying to establish in trying to educate the public on how, how big of a deal this, this virus is. It’s not something that we, it’s not, it’s not something that’s gonna go away fairly quickly. This is something that is major and words. We’re not, we’re not, we were never prepared for it, nobody prepared for it. And I mean, talking about 5 million people versus 5,000 beds or 5,000, and hospitals asking people to stay at home, I just think it kind of puts things into perspective, which is don’t pick a fight with the other side and it’s not about who’s right and who’s wrong. At the end of the day. You need to understand that this affects us all. and I think that’s where you were getting at. Correct me if I’m wrong. And then Christie, I’ll ask you to chime in.
SPEAKER 3
Dr Shahada, let me just see if I can confirm what you just indicated. This is a highly contagious virus and humans do not have immunity to that, to this virus at this point. Is that correct Yes. And the hospitals already have patients in the hospitals, obviously, and you’re expecting in four weeks to have an influx of cases, is that correct Yes. And in four weeks, it’s likely you will not have enough hospital beds for the expected number of patients. That is the concern. And in four weeks you likely will not have enough ICU beds for all the expected number of patients.
SPEAKER 1
That is the concern. Yes. The, this the, the prediction for how long it’s going to last is, is not really been made, but based on most viruses, you start to see a significant decline in, in viruses around June when the weather warms up. So we still have a couple of months to go.
SPEAKER 3
So we’re expecting a overwhelming number of patients until probably June, which is why you believe the governor is stay home
SPEAKER 4
and which is why the medical professionals are asking everyone to stay.
SPEAKER 1
Yeah, we’re asking everyone to stay home so it doesn’t spread, especially those that have symptoms of being sick and they should stay home so it doesn’t spread and do conservative care like you would for a common cold or a flu to take care of yourself, drink lots of fluids, try and stay away from other people. Keep yourself eating and sleeping as much as you can so you can re you can recover.
SPEAKER 2
Christie, you have questions
SPEAKER 4
I don’t have questions. I just have a comment and I think what’s, I think what’s potentially being overlooked here is that, and I think it really hits home that the children are carriers. I have an elderly father, I’ve got a sister with a compromised immune system. I think you have to look outside right now of yourself and what your needs, what your wants are. Because it’s not so much that whether or not your child is at risk going outside and driving in a car with you for visitation, it’s about the other people that it might potentially kill. It might in fact it might make them horribly sick. I mean, this is beyond the scope, I believe. And I CA, I think it needs to be really stressed here because I know there’s conflicting, direction that family law attorneys are getting. But I, I think it goes beyond just whether or not your child’s gonna develop the illness.
SPEAKER 4
It’s what you’re going to do to other people and potentially kill them. I think that has to be stressed pretty severely because you know that that’s the point here and I think that people are really like, Whoa, like my kid’s not sick, then you know, we’re going to go and do whatever. But I think it needs to be very stressed upon that this isn’t just about you and your child and even the other parent. This is a global issue that we need to ensure that not only we take care of ourselves but we take care of others and I think that’s, that’s the point
SPEAKER 2
and it is completely understandable that different attorneys are going to give different advice. Some attorneys are going to say, absolutely follow the court order to the T. Other attorneys are going to interpret the court orders in light of the governor’s order and there is no right or wrong answer. At the end of the day, it’s about safety. It’s about the safety of the children. It’s about the safety of the public in general. Otherwise orders like that would not have been issued and yes, we may not like the orders. Yes, we might think that the orders are a bit extreme, but again, when you start dissecting and you start understanding fast, that virus is spreading. It puts things into perspective. And the fact that children are carriers, again as everybody has highlighted is huge, huge, point because they don’t know. They have it, their touch, any and everything is calling indicated and it, it puts other,
SPEAKER 2
persons at risk. It puts family at risk. so again, that’s one thing. If you are the, if you’re a parent requesting the exchange, you might want to take that into consideration. If you have your mother or your father or a relative with some sort of, weak or, immune system, you might not walk the child there because they may be interior. That’s, and that’s, that’s something that you’re going to have to decide on your own. And you have to look at it as a cost benefit analysis. And at the end of the day, we all want the children to be safe. We all want the public to be safe. No one wants, no one wants the martial law or whatever. No one wants to be stuck at home. No one wants to close down their businesses. No one, I mean, we want to get back to normal. We want to get back to what it was, you know, at the end or at the beginning of 2020. And the more people that are out on the street, not abiding by these orders and the more people that are, out for non-essential work, what do you think is going to happen The government is going to become more and more strict. So again, just keep that in mind if Gina, do you have anything to add
SPEAKER 4
No. So dr Shahada in your, in what you’re hearing, you’re getting weekly briefings, is that correct
SPEAKER 2
Yes.
SPEAKER 4
Is it weekly or daily briefings on this
SPEAKER 1
we, we get, daily updates, but, but weekly briefings,
SPEAKER 4
daily updates, weekly briefings. It is the medical, profession viewing this as a public health risk.
SPEAKER 1
Yes. Yes. That’s why they want everyone to stay home. The goal is not that this is going to be here indefinitely. The goal is that we’re going to be able to get ahead of it so that we’re not spreading quickly to the point that that it’s overwhelming for the hospitals. The goal is that if, if this does spread, it spread slowly because people are taking heat to stay home and not spreading it to others.
SPEAKER 4
Yes ma’am. We got a question and I think that this is really a good one that I would like to address. Someone wrote, I kept my son home and didn’t allow a visiting parent to pick up yesterday was told they will be taking me to court for being in contempt. Well, any consequences take custody away from me. I am immunocompromised. We have stressed from the beginning that there are really three prongs to this. One is, and this was before the governor issued the order, but we have said you need to communicate with the other parents in writing and indicate your concerns, why you’re doing what you’re doing due to the order that I, you know the child needs to stay with me. The second prompt to this, but during this time I w I invite you to FaceTime with the child as much as possible.
SPEAKER 4
You know, make sure that they’re in constant contact with the parent who’s I’ll call the out parent. And then the third is the third part of this prong is, and when this is over, we will make up your time. We will figure it out. When this crisis is over, I will be more than happy to give you makeup time and that is a good system because the question is, am I going to be held in contempt of court, will being held in contempt of court. The other side has to prove one, one of many elements. And what it is is it is intentional, willful violation of a court order. So if you have in writing all of those three problems, there’s obviously, I think they’re going to have a hard time proving the willful violation of a court order. That’s my opinion.
SPEAKER 3
And, and and to jump in, you also have to prove that they have the ability to comply. Exactly. Then one is immunocompromised and somebody is experiencing a extreme health risk by complying with the court order. I would take that case, I would take that I would to skipping a beat because this parent is putting their own safety at risk by sending the child and then bringing the child back back into the home. The whole point of this, am I right dr Shahada I would agree with that. I would agree with that. But if you, especially if you’re immunocompromised, isolating the number of people that you come into contact with and those that you live with come in contact with, I think is an excellent way to keep yourself safe.
SPEAKER 2
And you also have to remember in a minute ask Colleen to chime in that filing the contempt action, the courts are currently closed. So there is going to be no immediate remedies and this is something that will be dealt with after the fact. So call this. Do you have any comments on the question that was asked
SPEAKER 3
Yeah, I think in addition to that as well as just the reality of what our system is, everything’s shut down. And although the courts
SPEAKER 6
you’re saying, you know, April 3rd we don’t know that to be true and then you’re looking at trial, that’s going to be a hearing and then a trial that’s going to be set and that’s going to be many months down the line. And we don’t even know what the reality of the calendar is going to be like when the courts do resume, they’re going to be overwhelmed as well just as everybody else. but I think another, another thing just to add on to our current liner, I like Christie’s three prongs is that if you are, you know, compromise, I think a really good practice is to get something from your doctor that States that because that could be something I’m not, I’m not saying that are the, the color or the, the user that posted that question would do something like that. But that’s certainly something that we want to avoid is people trying to take advantage of this situation. So I think that coupled with something in writing from the doctor showing that you are immunocompromised is going to be a slam dunk in terms of presenting that to the court.
SPEAKER 4
And Colleen, I think you make a very, very good point is that the courts are going to be inundated. I mean understand that. I’ve had trials that were set six months ago that are now gone that have to be reset. Every, every court date that we had that didn’t go forward has to be re calendar. And they, those cases get the priority. So then you have those cases on other days and then you have the regular cases that are set for that day. I mean by the time it’s all said on something that is really left to interpretation. So how strong is that case If again, you’ve done the three prongs, how strong is that case on a simple RFO, how strong is that case on a contempt I just don’t think, and again, as long as you make sure that the other parent has equal access to the child or children in a manner that is, you know, fits this situation. I mean I even envision if the child is playing, set your phone up and let the other parent watch him play. You know, I mean that in that kind of contact under this situation and under this context, I don’t see that you’re willfully doing anything other than trying to co-parent in this type of situation.
SPEAKER 6
Well and also imagine this is that imagine you have your court hearing on a contempt six months from now and as you indicated your third prong being offered up that makeup time. You’re sitting in court and you tell the judge yeah, that he, they weren’t able to exercise their visitation for that period of time he had the entire summer. So imagine what that judge’s reaction going to be when you have a party who is still looking to hold a party in tech and contempt. That’s absolutely concerning to fix a lot of words to insert right there. Asinine. Christy, can you do me a favor Can you repeat your three prompts please
SPEAKER 4
Yes, it is communication with the other parent as to why you are keeping the child. Obviously there’s a, an order from the governor to stay home. It is a, it’s a safety issue. It’s a health issue. so communicate that in your concerns and that you are going to follow the, the order of the governor, number one. Number two. However, during this crisis, during this time, I will be more than happy to give you face time, Skype. You can watch the child play, you know, anything and everything and as much contact as they run, offer as much as they want in terms of a FaceTime to make up for the lack of physical contact. And then the third prong is, and when miss situation is over, I will be more than happy to give you makeup time make up for this. That’s it. I again, I think that that is a safe, decision.
SPEAKER 4
It’s a safe methodology. And again, we’re not telling you to break the court orders. These orders during this time just seem to have to be modified it, you know, we’re not saying no contact, but by, you know, that’s not what we’re advocating here whatsoever. And it’s unfortunate if there going to be parents during this time based on the data that dr Shahade is giving us about the children being character carriers and the, the, the fact that there isn’t enough resources to handle critical issues. I mean, I think the other parent, you know, showing up with the police, just more concerning for me. what’s more concerning for me as a parent saying I’m going to file a contempt against you because of this. I mean, that’s to me rings more of the unreasonableness of the other side and not understanding the gravity of the situation.
SPEAKER 4
Excuse me. And if I was a judicial officer, you know, that would concern me more because why does a child need to, on top of everything else, not being in school, not being able to see their friends, not being to do, not being able to do anything more right now. And the child on top of it gets to, the parrot, opens the door, the police is standing there. Talk about traumatizing. I mean, that’s just, that’s not the appropriate way to behave right now. You need to co-parent with the other parent. You know, you need to make these decisions together and be United right now. And I’ll get off my soap box that Connie brought up, which is a doctor’s note saying that if visitation goes forward, I will be in danger. Physical danger.
SPEAKER 1
Let me hold on. If you do that though, you realize you’re going to be flooding the clinics with people going for doctor’s notes. They don’t recommend that.
SPEAKER 4
Thank you dr Shahada. I agree with, I was just about to say that, so I’m glad to get their shot. It is, what does the medical profession is asking No one to come to the doctor right now. No one
SPEAKER 1
you, if you feel that you’re sick, if you have a high fever, shortness of breath, a lot of coughing, there are drive through testing places that you can go through and they will call you with the results and have you go home and isolate. If you feel that you’re not able to breathe, that you’re, losing consciousness that, that you’re, extremely ill and we want you to come in. but most people will be able to hopefully ride this out at home and be able to be tested in a drive through testing facility.
SPEAKER 6
So if you’re critical, go to the hospital, otherwise stay away. Yes.
SPEAKER 2
In Colleen, I was used to receive a question I want you to chime in on and it reads that we told the other parent via email due to safety issues that we need to stop visitation until the stay at home is lifted. I think the other party is sitting outside waiting in the car. What do I do
SPEAKER 6
I don’t think there’s much else for you to do other than you’ve communicated. I would maybe pick up the phone and say, Hey, I see you out there. I’m sorry, but this is what our position is and I’m trying to do whatever I can. So, to allow safe visitation such as FaceTime or if you do zoom or whatever, Skype. But right now I just don’t think it’s in any of our best interests to allow any more, physical contact between us. We all need to stay here at home. And my comment about getting a written doctor’s note wasn’t for like right now, but if this were to go to core, I think, you know, in several months time that might be a good idea to get something like that. But I certainly understand dr Shahada, his plays, I don’t mean for everybody to go bum rush their doctor’s office to go get some sort of their medical file copy of their medical file or request to know. I know that the medical professions have much more important things to be doing than providing documents for the courthouse right now. so and I, and that, as we’ve been saying the last couple of days, it’s just be reasonable and communicate. So yeah, they’re parked outside of your house or like, I’m sorry, but my position has changed. Anybody
SPEAKER 4
else has anything else to add in regards to that What if the police are knocking on the door in 10 minutes Then what do we do You exchange the law. Okay. There’s the, there’s the advice and the law and if a police officer knocking on my door, I’m handing that child over, I’m not going to get arrested over this. I’m not going to, you know, I mean, no, we’re giving advice, we’re giving our professional opinion and every situation is different and, and, and in those situations, that’s why we’re here for you. You know, that is a conversation that we need to have with you and again, but we’re not telling you to break the law. I don’t, I don’t think that message is given whatsoever by any of these webinars. I think it’s exactly the opposite. Be reasonable under the circumstances, be understanding under the circumstances.
SPEAKER 4
But again, I will hit home that if the children are the carriers and not necessarily the infected ones on, you know, I have family members that immediately come to mind that would absolutely be affected by those. And I’m not so much concerned about the children right now. I’m concerned about my family members and I think that it’s a slightly selfish, if you will position to take that just because your kids, okay then it’s okay. I think you have to look at the safety and health of the entire public. look to your, look to your parents, grandparents and say, these are the ones I’m worried about and if my child has an effect on these people that may or may not be here after this, then I think that that’s the, that’s the mentality that needs to be had. Not so much that my child’s fine therefore and the other parent, therefore we can do the exchanges.
SPEAKER 4
And you know what it might be that you feel and your other parent feels that the exchanges are state and you can do it. That’s up to you. But if you do have these concerns, I think it’s very reasonable to say that because of these concerns. I mean I don’t think people realize the gravity of the situation and how truly, bad it is. I mean we are all sitting at home right now having zero contact with one another. I mean the effects of this are devastating not only health wise but financially. I mean we need to stick together right now. We need to recover from this. And again, showing up with the police. You know, it’s just, I think it sends absolutely the wrong message. Okay.
SPEAKER 2
And to add to that, there’s a, there’s a second part to that question and it’s from the same participant and they asked that that the issue we deal with is that the other parent is a narcissist and no matter what we say or do, the other parent wants to argue. And I know Colleen recommended that maybe you call and let them know. So maybe knowing that piece of fact you might not want to engage and you might want to keep communication and writing. Colleen, do you have anything to add
SPEAKER 6
Well, no, I mean calling with someone sitting parked at the end of your driveway, certainly think calling, but dealing with difficult personalities, it’s, I absolutely agree that it should all be in writing. And you’re probably using talking parents, parents cause most cases involving someone like that do. So just as we’ve said before and we would give you the same advice if this wasn’t happening, it’s just a document, everything and talking parents and know that probably down the road that’s going to be if, if your case goes back to court that those communications are going to be key. and they will be reviewed more than likely by CCRC, individual and by the judge and they’re going to be looking to see who’s being most reasonable.
SPEAKER 3
Christine, I’d like to ask you a question based upon your years of experience, you’ve got many children and their best interest. One of the questions asked was if dad or the noncustodial parent starts communicating with my child and blaming me that I’ve taken away visitation and communicating with the child excessively about parent type issues. What do I do
SPEAKER 4
Presumably in that situation, presumably you’ve been to court and when you go to court there’s a standard order that is made that, you know, the parents don’t speak derogatorily about the other one. something to that effect. And so I feel like in that specific scenario then that is that is speaking bad about the other parent in front of the child to the child. Then I think that you have to take parental measures to limit that contact. Listen, nothing hurts a child more than to hear something bad about their other parent. I can’t tell you the the, the effects it has on a child to have conflict in the home. And what I mean by that is parental conflict. You don’t have to all be under one roof, but when you have that in inherent conflict, nothing damages a child more. I’m talking emotionally, academically, you name it.
SPEAKER 4
Our children are so much worse off if we choose to engage in derogatory and negative, I call it negative parenting and during this time where our children are home 24 seven it was one thing to go to school. They could get a break from it, be with their friends, kind of escape the negativity going on in their, their home life and now they’re home all the time. I would believe that in bad or difficult co-parenting situations that it’s even just heightened even more. Think about what this is doing to your children. It is permanent damage that you do to your children. Under that scenario. Christy, let me wait to you this specific question. Yes. Notifying the other parent, the other parent sent messages to my child that I am keeping them away from each other. It’s my fault. He can’t pick them up, et cetera.
SPEAKER 4
Am I able to block the other parent on my child’s phone and request contact to be through my phone This unfortunately is common when things don’t go the other parent’s way. What’s your advice to this call This person First you have to look at your court order and what it says. some orders are very specific about phone contact. So if your order says the child and I, again, I’ve done a lot of these orders. The child is to have a phone. It’s supposed to be on all the time. The parent’s allowed to communicate and I don’t think you shut off the phone because I think that’s a direct violation of that order. And you just have, this is where you come in to say, look, you know I, this isn’t what I’m doing. The communication with your child has to be key. But if you don’t have that kind of order, I think it is upon incumbent upon you to reach out to that parent, advise them that if this behavior continues that you are going to block them and you are in all communication outs to go through you if but, but I think what people need to understand is that all of this, I’m a trial lawyer, okay, I am in court every day.
SPEAKER 4
I love it. I’m a litigator. That’s what I do. Right So what I’m thinking now and all I, all I always think of things is what is the evidence So if during this time that’s the way they chose to respond and these are text messages that can be easily screenshot it for purposes of future hearings and determination about custody. So if, if we have a client who was doing that or if you’re the recipient of those types of issues, then certainly probably it’s going to have to be addressed later on. But I would particularly look to your order and if you have an order that says the child has to have a phone, it’s to remain on and that’s how the parent has to communicate with the other, with the child, then no, I don’t think you turn it off. If your order is silent on that, then I think you affirmatively, warn the parent that if this behavior continues, because let’s be serious here.
SPEAKER 4
A lot of people overreact. These are your children, especially when it comes to your children. So this might be an isolated incident. Maybe they were venting, maybe they didn’t use the best parental judgment of involving the child. It really D D it really, is determined or it really, really it, is this an isolated incident or is this continuing to happen And if it’s an isolated incident, I would say under the circumstances and everybody’s emotions, I would say to let it go that it happened. But if it’s constant or continuing, then I would say that you need to reach out to that parent and say, Hey, like fire a warning shot. Say, Hey, if this continues, if you send one more message, then I’m going to block you and you can communicate through me to the child.
SPEAKER 2
Perfect. Christine, with that note, I’m going to go ahead and just, some final comments and I want to give dr Shada an opportunity to, to give us some, final comments to wrap up this meeting. We are holding these webinars daily. Our next webinar is going to be scheduled for Monday at 10:00 AM. if you have any questions or if we were unable to get to your question, please reach out to your attorney. Please email or call your attorney and ask those questions. And if you need help with an issue, that’s what we’re here for. Remember, just because the courts are closed and just because things are uncertain right now, it doesn’t mean that you should not be reaching out to your attorney for advice and using that, that your attorney as a tool of communication to the other side to make sure that all it, I bet as of now, just for now, things are okay. Dr Shahada. I’m going to let you finish the call. Do you have any final comments or advice for, for the participants here
SPEAKER 1
No. Again, just everyone try and stay home and stay safe. do what’s in the best interest for, for you and your family. and try and make sure that if you do go out that you hand sanitize frequently, you keep your items clean and if you have any symptoms at all of being sick, any concern that you’ve been around, anyone that’s sick, please don’t go out.
SPEAKER 2
Thank you dr for that. And again for those of you who are not able to join, this reporting is going to be posted on all of our social media websites on our Facebook page page, and pretty soon on our website as well. So just continue to reach out to us, send us questions, we’ll answer them again. there is no session tomorrow. The session, the next session will be Monday morning at 10:00 PM Pacific standard time. Please send us your questions if you have them. Thank you all. God bless. Thank you. Legal panel for joining. And thank you again, dr Shahada for joining.
SPEAKER 5
God bless they sake, everyone. Yes.
